/
RSS Feed
Benton and Abi feel bad about climate change. As they should. They talk about how to channel negative emotions into productive action, as recommended in the book Facing the Climate Emergency by Margaret Klein Salamon.
Sources and further reading
- Salamon, Margaret Klein (2023). Facing the Climate Emergency: How to Transform Yourself with Climate Truth. New Society Publishers.
- Bakke, A. & B. Bakke (Hosts). “Disaster Comm, Part 1: Disaster is the New Normal.” (24 Nov. 2022). [Podcast Episode]. In TC Talk. https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/techcommtalk/episodes/Disaster-comm–Part-1-Disaster-is-the-new-normal-e1r7var/a-a8u21lb
- Bakke, A. & B. Bakke (Hosts). “A Tech Comm Prof and a Space Enthusiast React to Don’t Look Up” (6 Jan. 2022). [Podcast Episode]. In TC Talk. https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/techcommtalk/episodes/A-tech-comm-prof-and-a-space-enthusiast-react-to-Dont-Look-Up-e1cffr5/a-a76c9bs
- Resilience. (2023, November 15). Crazy Town Bonus Riff: Bundyville and Stories that Need to Be Told with Leah Sottile. Resilience. https://www.resilience.org/stories/2023-11-15/crazy-town-bonus-leah-sottile/
- Westervelt, Amy. (Host). (2016-present). Drilled [Podcast]. Drilled Media. https://drilled.media
Transcript
| B | It’s depressing. It’s enraging. It’s frustrating. It makes me want to change everything I do. It makes me feel like it won’t make a difference if I do. It makes me want to run for office to fix something. I get all the feels about it. |
| A | Hi My name is Abi. I’m a professor of technical Communication. |
| B | Oh, now me? |
| A | Mm hmm. |
| B | And I’m Benton. I am not a professor of technical communication. |
| A | And this is TC talk. That’s tech talk. So we talk about Tech comm whether or not we are professors of it, |
| B | Right. I guess that you could consider me a bit of a subject matter expert on this. Expert ay be a little overreach but |
| A | Right we’re talking climate today. |
| B | We’re talking climate. |
| A | This is going to be a hard episode. |
| B | Yeah, |
| A | I’ve been putting it off because we’re going to talk about |
| B | The climate emergency |
| A | and specifically our psychological states around it, our emotions around it. |
| B | Mm hmm. |
| A | Climate anxiety. Climate doom |
| B | Yes. |
| A | It’s a real thing. It’s safe to say we both have experienced it. |
| B | Yes. Would you like me to mansplain it to the audience? |
| A | Ben splain. |
| B | Ben splain. Okay. That sounds a lot less negative. |
| A | Are you going to Ben splain the climate emergency or climate anxiety? |
| B | Climate Doom. |
| A | Oh, okay. |
| B | So climate doom, which can lead to climate Doomerism, is a response to information about the climate emergency that is basically, well, we’re all fucked and there’s nothing we can do about it. |
| A | Right. Climate doom is perhaps an unproductive manifestation of climate anxiety. |
| B | Perhaps? |
| A | Okay, okay. |
| B | It’s explicitly an unproductive response. |
| A | Okay. So Listeners may recall several months ago we did a series on crisis communication. |
| B | Yes. |
| A | And in the course of that, in part one I believe we talked about how I tend to, well, initially I said I tend to bury my head in the sand in response to bad news. And then I revised it to no, I run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Because as much as I wish I could bury the feelings, I can’t. They’re always there and I find them paralyzing at times. |
| B | It drives you to avoid engaging with the data, with the reality. |
| A | And you are, you’re kind of like, let me work this into every casual conversation. |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | Which makes you a lovely dinner party companion. |
| B | How many dinner parties have we been to? |
| A | See, that’s why! |
| B | I doubt it. |
| A | We’d be invited to more if people weren’t always like we can’t invite Benton, he’s gonna be holding us all accountable. No, but you’re right and you have very kindly and gently brought my attention to this tendency of mine and we have a thing. Who’s that? |
| B | That’s Fern. |
| A | Let her in. This is our first time recording with two cats. |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | And Fig has never been in the blanket for it, so it’s a new experience for him. where was I? So you very gently brought this to my attention by recommending that I read this book. And the book was |
| B | Facing the climate emergency. |
| A | How to transform yourself with climate Truth, by Margaret Salomon Klein. I did not like what this book had to say. It called me out. I needed to hear it. I hated the experience of reading it. But I’m on board. So this author, she is a psychologist and a climate activist. She founded the Climate Emergency Fund. And I feel like psychological perspectives have kind of been missing from the conversation about climate communication. Well, I shouldn’t say that. I hadn’t been paying attention to the fact that there is work being done around psychological responses to climate change and how that affects people’s behavior. This topic is relevant to TC talk listeners in a couple of ways. Obviously, technical communicators are tasked with conveying complex technical and scientific information to a range of audiences. Climate change is scientific and technical, but it’s also affecting everyone by now, |
| B | Yes. |
| A | So it should not be the scientific and technical topic that remains, this is knowledge that should not be hoarded or kept amongst experts. It needs to be shared widely. And that’s not to say people haven’t tried. I think for a long time there’s been that, that classic science communication misconception that if only people knew, if only people had the information, they had the facts, then they would do the right thing. Then they would understand. |
| B | Mmm hmm. |
| A | Then they would believe |
| B | the Education Panacea fallacy. I just made that up. |
| A | Yeah. There is an actual name for that. But I can’t think of what it is at the moment. So I think part of the solution could be understanding how people are approaching it cognitively. One thing I always encourage my students to do is consider the emotional states of their audiences. There’s never going to be a reader, or an audience, or a user who is in a 100% ideal frame of mind when they encounter your communication. |
| B | True. |
| A | People will have different beliefs and feelings and obstacles that affect how they respond to the information. So on the one hand, I hope that by discussing this, people who teach and do tech comm can, we’ll give you something more to consider in terms of crafting communication for your audiences, but more relevant to our focus today. We each also individually have to deal with our shit. |
| B | Yes. |
| A | I just I have feelings about this stuff. I’m going to vomit them upon you. |
| B | Where they come from is a question that is real. |
| A | So my dad is a songwriter. One of his first songs he ever wrote in college, that was a lyric. We’ll never let him live it down. Um, feelings, I have feelings. |
| B | By us talking about it and our feelings I think that, I hope that we can help guide others to begin this process on their own. |
| A | Yeah. Which is something that she says in the book that we need to do is we need to talk about it. Do you remember when we went to the DFL picnic and I was talking with our Minnesota State representative. And I was like, so, give listeners a brief rundown of how awesome the Minnesota Legislature has done. |
| B | Yes. So, national news has picked up a lot of the accomplishments of the DFL, which is the Minnesota variety of Democrat, |
| A | Democratic Farmer Laborer. |
| B | Yep. Anyway, their accomplishments at the state level, having control of the State House, |
| A | They have a razor thin majority, |
| B | But having that thin majority still accomplishing major things. |
| A | legalized marijuana, |
| B | Paid sick leave. |
| A | Environment stuff, |
| B | Yes, environment stuff. |
| A | The point is Minnesota has been called the anti -Florida and I think it should be a model to other states of what to do when you actually get power. |
| B | Mm-Hm. |
| A | Is like make stuff happen. Anyway. So I was talking to him about this and I was like, what do we do about climate change? Omg. And he said, have conversations about it. And initially I was like, what is that going to do? We need to act. And as will become clear as we proceed through this discussion, you got to get other people on board. Everyone’s kind of already thinking about it, and probably ignoring it. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | So we got to make people uncomfortable. |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | She shares a 2021 study that showed that 56% of young people believe that humanity is doomed. 46% say that climate anxiety affects them every day. So I’m not just making it up. People are thinking about it, people are worried about it. The book is pretty easy read. Well, I shouldn’t say easy, it’s a decently quick read. She has the chapters broken down into steps for dealing with your climate anxiety. The first step being face the truth. Second, welcome the painful feelings. Three, re-imagine your life story. Four, enter emergency mode. Five, join the movement and disrupt normalcy. First, a little background. She says, and I quote, “we are in pain because our world is dying and through our passivity, we are responsible for killing it.” |
| B | So that’s why it’s important to talk about it. Anything but passivity. |
| A | Yeah. That sucks to hear but this passivity is all around us. It’s like, I don’t know, the millennial cynicism. It’s probably not limited to one generation. But when we see that attitude, it seems like, meow, like the end of earth is inevitable. Like the end of humanity as we know it is inevitable, we’ve resigned ourselves to it. She says “How can we otherwise make sense of the fact that more people aren’t rioting in the streets at the imminent destruction of their lives, their children’s lives, and the entire web of life?” It’s one of those things that you look around and you’re like, am I banana pants or is everybody else? |
| B | Am I fully disconnected from reality or is everyone else? |
| A | Yeah, yeah. And the answer is kind of everyone else, honestly. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | I mean ourselves included because we’re all like, she says, we look to other people to gauge risk. |
| B | Yep. |
| A | How are other people acting? We follow their lead, and frankly our leaders are not acting like this is the crisis that it actually is. |
| B | Right. |
| A | So she’s part of a group that helped make the phrase climate emergency a thing. We’ll talk about what that is shortly. She advocates for disruptive but non violent climate activism and my reactions and my resistance as I read the book, have really helped see where I need to grow. |
| B | Hm. |
| A | Because I wish there were a way to make a difference without making waves. But change doesn’t happen that way, like meaningful change doesn’t happen that way. |
| B | Systems resist that. |
| A | You’ve certainly looked this in the face more directly than I have. How do you feel about the climate emergency? How do you feel? |
| B | Bad is too small a word. |
| A | It is all encompassing though. |
| B | It is all encompassing. Yeah. I feel, it’s depressing. It’s enraging. It’s frustrating. It makes me want to change everything I do. It makes me feel like it won’t make a difference if I do. It makes me want to run for office to fix something. I get all the feels about it. |
| A | Yeah. And overwhelmed from all the feels. |
| B | Ranging from the positive, I know how to fix this. Someone should let me, to Despair. |
| A | I don’t know if this is an apt metaphor, but I love the good place. The TV show. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | And I think it’s season three, the part where Chidi, suddenly all truth is revealed to him, you know, the truth of the universe, and life and death, et cetera, and it’s not good news and he goes out of his mind and he cooks a gigantic pot of chili in front of his philosophy class and adds marshmallow peeps and M and M’s while wearing a who what where wine T shirt. He tells his class, nothing matters. That’s what you need to know for the test. |
| B | He has a moment where he says, this broke me. You get to a point of information where logic just gives up. |
| A | Yeah. So when I think too hard about climate, I’m like, why not cook a pot of peep chili in front of my class? But then Eleanor kind of brings him to his senses and says, well, what other choice do we have but to try? |
| B | I think that’s a pretty good metaphor. |
| A | Yeah? All right. Are you ready to face the truth? I mean, you already have. |
| B | Are you ready to face the truth, listener? |
| A | It’s telling that the word truth pings my conspiracy alarm bells, like what does that mean? |
| B | The fact is that there are in fact conspiracies, they’re real, they’ve been uncovered. Conspiracies that specifically that Exxon knew. In the ’70s. Like they were aware in the late ’70s that climate change was lock things up. |
| A | Yeah, I mean, it is kind of a conspiracy, but it’s one that works because it makes us feel better to buy into the lie that it’s not that bad. So here in two sentences, the truth of the climate emergency is, here. Read this for me. |
| B | Certainly. “Scientific consensus says the accelerating climate emergency and ecological crisis threatens human life through famine, disease, accelerating natural disasters, conflicts and social collapse. Only an emergency mobilization of resources to rapidly transform our entire economy and society (Meaning zero emissions and drawdown) can possibly protect the future of humanity and the living world.” |
| A | We’re not going to go over the science. That’s out there. We’re not trying to convince anyone that this is real at this point. We’re trying to be real about the extent of the damage. She talks about how we actually expend energy trying to bury our feelings about it and protect ourselves. And the media and the fossil fuel industry have really given us a hand in this regard, even if we know they’re scum, their campaigns have been extremely effective. They don’t have to deny climate change, they just have to scatter enough seeds of doubt that we can discard info that may be true, but it is hard to face. It gives us that plausible deniability. |
| B | What is the matter with you cat? |
| A | And they, so the fossil fuel industry followed the big tobacco playbook, right? And we have an entire major political party that denies the science of climate change. The Republican Party is the only major political party in the world that does that. |
| B | American exceptionalism. |
| A | And, you know, in efforts to be bipartisan and whatever it, in efforts to appease that audience, all legitimate efforts to curtail climate change are going to be dragged down to a negligible level. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | So the Inflation Reduction act was passed in 2022. What do you know about that one? |
| B | It’s kind of a big change from a lot of legislation that we’ve had lately. It is an industrial policy piece of legislation that, I think that it has something like 360 billion somewhere in there dollars earmarked for climate change, various efforts, which is the largest in the world so far. I say industrial policy because it aims at getting these industries up and going through whatever means necessary. |
| A | What industries? Renewable energy? |
| B | Renewable energy, electrification of various aspects of our industrialized society. |
| A | So, it’s a step in the right direction? |
| B | Yes, it’s a step in the right direction. |
| A | But it’s not enough. |
| B | It’s not enough and from the bill that it was taken, which you probably heard of the green new deal. It’s basically |
| A | Watered down? |
| B | Yeah, it’s like 5% of that. |
| A | Wow. |
| B | That’s the problem with compromising with lunatics. |
| A | Yeah. So that should tell you how behind we actually are. And she talks about the justice aspect of this too, is that the effects of climate change are not being borne equally. The gap will only widen with the worst harms on the most marginalized people |
| B | who caused it the least. |
| A | Exactly. Exactly. And she talks about “a future where electric cars and trucks offer a temporarily tolerable lifestyle for the privileged, while electric tanks at the border stop desperate migrants from coming in.” |
| B | It’s an interesting comment. The electric tanks, Mm hmm. Militaries the world over have been by leaps and bounds the worst emitters of carbon dioxide, the worst. due to national security reasons, they’re not added in to calculations. |
| A | Really? |
| B | Yep. If you know how much fuel, |
| A | Oh my gosh. |
| B | If you know how much fuel an army is using, you can make a guess about how many vehicles of what types. |
| A | How do you know this? |
| B | It’s in the book. |
| A | This book? |
| B | maybe it isn’t in this book. I think it might be in Greta Thunberg’s The Climate Book. A |
| A | Wow. |
| B | Which is also a great read. |
| A | What a loophole. |
| B | To a much smaller extent, global shipping, air freight, container ships, that’s not captured by any country, it’s only 3% to 4% of carbon emissions but it’s one of those had to deal with ones because, you know, long distance transportation is hard to do electrically. |
| A | It makes me so mad to look at the billions being indiscriminately spent on defense in our country. Mm hm. |
| B | And no one questions that it goes up every year. |
| A | And we’re apparently not able to keep account of the carbon emissions that result from our huge military. |
| B | Mm hmm. Fun side note, I don’t, I don’t know if there’s been a second one done, but the Pentagon has failed its audit. They can’t account 21 million dollars of spending. |
| A | What? Did they check the couch cushions? |
| B | It’s a lot of couch cushions. |
| A | The money is there because somehow as a society, we’ve decided that this matters more than anything else. We just need to shift our focus. What is it, is it that climate change is not a person? It’s not an enemy that we can’t wrap our heads around like this is actually a bigger threat than some other country. |
| B | I think there’s a lot of, a lot that goes into the psychology of not dealing with it. Part of it is that frog in the pot analogy, things have been changing slowly, so you might not have noticed over time how, for example, you don’t get as many bugs on the windshield at night anymore because insect populations are declining. |
| A | We live in Minnesota, it’s late December, we have not had snow on the ground, |
| B | Right? That isn’t unheard of, especially in southern Minnesota. But as nice as it is to work outside right now, it still is unnerving. |
| A | Not to mention, in the summer when the Canadian wildfires polluted our air in southern Minnesota, to the point where we were advised to stay inside. The position of climate denial is, it may have worked for a while. By now it’s like it’s keeping you in your house. How do you explain that away? |
| B | It’s like Don’t Look Up. |
| A | I don’t know, but people are very motivated to. Yeah, watch Don’t look up on Netflix or listen to our episode on it. What is it, A tech comm prof and a space enthusiast react to Don’t Look up. |
| B | So another thing that makes it really hard to address is that the easiest solution, the best solution, is less consumption and that is less imaginable for most Americans than the complete collapse of human civilization. |
| A | But we need to be really cautious about thinking that the solution lies at an individual level, |
| B | Right. It doesn’t. |
| A | Because that’s something that the fossil fuel industries, you know, that was masterful propaganda to say recycle and you individually can make choices to save the world while they’re the ones |
| B | profiting from its demise. |
| A | Yes, I think we need to be reasonable about individual actions we can take to reduce our own carbon footprint. You know, weigh them against the efficacy of other individual actions that are meant to push us towards systemic change. Does that make sense? |
| B | Yes, everyone can do something, but the most important thing that we can do is change the systems that, you know, like suburbs make cars necessary. Yeah. The way that our society is laid out. It’s just needs to change. |
| A | But I absolutely see what you’re saying is that self interest is something that’s also causing us to avoid looking at the consequences of our lifestyles because Mm hm. It’s hard to give up the privilege you have. |
| B | Right. |
| A | So let’s talk about some of the common psychological defenses that people use. There’s outright denial of course. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | Intellectualization: it’s real, but it doesn’t affect me emotionally. Willful ignorance: I don’t want to know what’s happening. Mm hmm. Wishful thinking. It can’t be that bad. We’re making progress, which is false, by the way. |
| B | Right. |
| A | I don’t think she talks about it. But would you lump techno optimism in with wishful thinking as a psychological defense? |
| B | I would consider techno optimism a subset of wishful thinking. |
| A | So that belief that science, |
| B | Science will figure something out. Science already figured it out. That’s the thing. We just need to have the will to do it. |
| A | Well, we want science to come up with an answer that doesn’t require us to be uncomfortable. |
| B | Right. |
| A | In any way. |
| B | We want a drop in solution that doesn’t change anything but somehow magically fixes the problems that our everything have caused. |
| A | Yeah. Projection, it is real, but it’s other people’s fault. Mm hm. Which again, is largely true |
| B | For every individual. It’s largely true except for, you know, the 100 richest people in the world who’ve done most of it. |
| A | Gradualism, we can’t scare the public. We need hope, not fear. |
| B | Mm hmm. |
| A | But doesn’t that sound so nice and balanced and reasonable? |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | Again, it’s the civilized response. It’s the response that allows us to not make waves and to |
| B | it’s tone policing. |
| A | Ooh, good call. It makes it possible to silence the people who are being uncomfortably loud about it. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | But we should be scared. Climate communicators are not being honest with us if they’re not scaring us. And she also says that the claims against public fear are not supported by evidence. So that whole line of, we can’t scare the public, is not actually true. |
| B | We can’t scare the public, well, the historical evidence is not in, does not support that. What happened after 911? |
| A | Exactly. |
| B | What happened after Pearl Harbor? |
| A | Yeah. Fear mongering is perfectly acceptable if it supports a military intervention. |
| B | Mm hmm. |
| A | How convenient. So she says that public discussion is trapped somewhere between denialism and gradualism right now. And the Overton window is too small to accommodate the reality. |
| B | Yes, the Overton window, I think ironically it was actually coined by a right winger, It’s the window of things that are okay to discuss, that are politically acceptable to discuss |
| A | things that are in bounds. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | In other words we can’t talk about radical climate action without being seen as silly or overreacting in the United States. |
| B | Right. |
| A | The good news, she says, we’re not powerless. |
| B | Oh, thank goodness. |
| A | We feel this way, We feel helpless for a reason. She says “larger forces have conspired, both purposefully and inadvertently, to deny the truth, making us feel helpless.” And that helplessness breeds passivity, which allows the status quo to continue. And she talks about World War Two as an example of the United States rallying around a common cause. |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | And not just like, let’s go |
| B | kill the baddies. |
| A | Exactly. But home front like mobilization and self-sacrifice. |
| B | Yeah. There were lots of scrap drives to get the important metals, materials that were needed for the war effort, for things as simple as building or retooling factories. |
| A | Victory Gardens? |
| B | Victory Gardens. Yeah. |
| A | And of course the up ending of society so that women went to work in the factories and they actually created government subsidized childcare. |
| B | that even included at times the ability to pick up your kid with a hot meal to take home at the end of your factory shift. |
| A | But yeah, the country was largely unified. They had a common sense of purpose. It’s possible. Covid was an opportunity to have that sense of purpose again. |
| B | to a small extent, I think that some people captured it. |
| A | Yeah. And with World War Two, I don’t think there was an entire political party that was resisting forward motion. I mean, |
| B | Not in this country anyway. |
| A | Well, I mean, there were certainly American Nazis. |
| B | Yeah, that’s true. |
| A | And what do you call them? Isolationists. |
| B | Yep. |
| A | But I don’t think they were the presence that climate deniers are today. |
| B | Yeah. They had the good sense to shut up after Pearl Harbor. |
| A | Mm. Are you feeling bad, Benton? |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | Well, we’re coming to step two. Welcome fear, grief, and other painful feelings. |
| B | Argh. |
| A | And by the way, it took us a long time to get through step one, but the rest of these won’t take that long. |
| B | Okay. |
| A | Here’s what I wanted the author to say when I first started reading this book. Don’t worry about it. Obviously, because you’re so distressed, you’re a good person who cares and that’s what matters. You can’t do anything about this, so stop stressing. Do self care, go to therapy, meditate, take a bubble bath, journal. |
| B | I’m smiling. |
| A | Why? |
| B | I mean, you weren’t all wrong there. Go to therapy. Self-care, certainly. |
| A | No, these are good things. These are good things. But they don’t get at the root of our climate anxiety. |
| B | Soothe is not the right strategy. |
| A | Yeah, I think those things should be done in addition to meaningful action. She says feel the feelings, they are justified. Stop trying to tamp them down. There is freedom in feeling your feelings. You feel this way because your fears are justified. I don’t like feeling bad feelings, Benton. You can try to bury them but they’re still there. She talks about approaching your feelings with self compassion and curiosity. So for my part I need to be compassionate towards myself for trying to bury or rationalize the feelings around climate change because it was and is an act of self protection. |
| B | Mm hmm. |
| A | This is how humans are built. |
| B | It’s an act of psychic, psychic self preservation. |
| A | Yeah. And I really liked what she had to say here. “Your painful feelings spring from the best parts of yourself, from your empathy, sense of responsibility, love for others, and love of life.” |
| B | That was so good to read. |
| A | You know, we talk about grief even as being a sign of love. |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | That we’ve loved someone. And I think feeling grief about what we’ve lost, what our planet has lost, |
| B | What we’ve already lost. |
| A | Yes. Is a sign that, that we truly do care about it. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | What was that stat she had about the percentage of biodiversity that plummeted? |
| B | Oh boy. It was really, it was really sad. I know that, like I had mentioned earlier, the insect population as measured by Bug strikes on windshields, which, sure, it’s citizen science. It’s not perfect but it’s a good gauge. |
| A | Mm. “The World Wildlife Fund’s Living Planet Report 2018 documents a 60% decline in the populations of mammals, fish, birds, reptiles and amphibians in the last 40 years. The insect apocalypse is the tip of the spear, but it’s also the base of the food chain.” |
| B | Mm hmm. |
| A | “Number of insects surveyed by weight decreased by 75% between 1989 and 2016. Monarch butterfly population in North America has declined by 90% in the last 20 years.” |
| B | In the last 20 years. Man. |
| A | grieving is not the same as giving up, she says. And here she talks about the climate doomers that you referenced at the beginning. “They use grief as an endpoint, an excuse for inaction” when we should be channeling grief into action. Step three then is reimagine your life’s story. See yourself as a hero on a mission. And what gifts and challenges and experiences have you had in your life that can contribute to this mission? This kind of involves acknowledging that you can’t live the life you’ve imagined. Or at the very least, our kids are not going to be able to live the lives we’ve imagined for them and their kids. She talks about this will to live that is part of all life, really. |
| B | Yep. That’s, that’s one of the impulse, that’s one of the impulses of, of life. Is that will to live. I know that she also talked about how, gosh, what was it during the Cold War? There was some study that talked about the opposite |
| A | Will to die? |
| B | Yeah. Basically the apocalyptic thinking that is more or less dominant now. With the advent of mutually assured destruction as military policy, it sort of began that people were like, you know what, We kind of deserve it. |
| A | So what does action look like? And that brings us to step four. Enter emergency mode versus panic mode, which is freezing, right? Or resignation mode, |
| B | right? So panic would be a whole bunch of action that accomplishes nothing. When you panic, that’s what you do. Yeah. Run around and don’t do anything useful. |
| A | So right now we are in normal mode, which means we are acting in denial of the reality of global warming. And although we would all say we’re not denialists, we know it’s real, we are not acting like it. And that’s what matters. We feel safe. In normal mode, governments can invest in multiple priorities. Emergency mode says everything goes to solve our one biggest existential threat. Like nothing else fucking matters, right? Spend without limit because |
| B | The cost of not, is everything. |
| A | Yeah. Yeah. And Like I said before, our government seemingly spends without limit on the military. So there is precedent for it. |
| B | Yeah. The rhetoric of what it’s going to cost, and the expense of the green transition and all of that is very much status quo. Not only that, but it’s also not the way that those terms are used. Costs don’t have a valuable product. Investments take capital and they give you something. Investing in a green future is what we would be doing. |
| A | So try to shift the discussion from action costing something to it being investing in something. Is that what you’re saying? |
| B | Yeah, I think that that’s the right way to do it. Investing yourself in a cause. Investing in upgrades to your home or whatever. |
| A | So we need to follow the lead of climate groups that are acting like the problem is she mentions extinction rebellion, the sunrise movement. Are there others you know of? |
| B | Just stop Oil was one in the UK. They actually disrupted the flow of, I can’t remember, probably just gas in Britain for 6 hours, whole country. With coordinated efforts of, you know, valve turning and that sort of thing. |
| A | Wow. And people complain about that, right? And people say, I understand, I agree with them. But they shouldn’t, |
| B | They shouldn’t disrupt. |
| A | Right. |
| B | So step one is don’t be that person. Don’t complain about being disrupted. |
| A | Yeah, I mean, you don’t have to like it, but that’s the point. |
| B | Exactly. |
| A | She also talks about the group Act Up, which helped bring awareness to the Aids crisis in the ’80s. They obviously weren’t covering climate issues, but they modeled disruptive nonviolent protest in a way that was effective. Also, if you are interested in Act Up, then the movie BPM, I would recommend. It’s a French movie. It shows, I think, a really realistic picture of organizing and how there were disagreements and they had to prioritize and make decisions but they had a shared mission. Thanks to Matt for the recommendation. But the idea is that in emergency mode, people shift from thinking in terms of what is good for me and start to think what is good for the cause. When we personally shift into emergency mode, we should tell people because others need to see us setting that example, which means we’re going to be the annoying ones. |
| B | Yes, |
| A | we’re going to be no fun to be around. And she says, “ talking about climate is the one mode of engagement that I recommend to everyone.” On the one hand it’s like how could that do anything, but on the other hand, |
| B | it breaks the culture of silence. |
| A | Yeah and if you’re listening to us and you’re feeling uncomfortable it’s because you were already feeling uncomfortable and It’s just coming to the surface now. So own it. |
| B | We’re giving you permission. |
| A | Yeah. Feel bad. |
| B | Mm hmm. If you don’t feel bad when things are bad, there’s something wrong with you. |
| A | Or you are engaging in a very human response of self-preservation. |
| B | Right? I should say feeling bad about things being bad is an appropriate response. |
| A | Yeah. Step five, join the movement and disrupt normalcy. She talks about how the original climate movement was dominated by gradualism, coziness with business interests and insider politics. And how that is not the approach that’s going to get us where we need to be anymore. “Sustained escalating disruptive action is the fastest, most effective route to transformative change.” She talks about how disruptive action does not fit her personality. I think that’s important because I have told myself, you know, that’s just not me. |
| B | Mm hm. |
| A | But I believe in the research that it’s the most effective. And she says that there are many ways to support the movement that don’t involve, you know, being out in the streets rioting or whatever. |
| B | People out in the streets don’t riot, they protest. |
| A | Thank you. Good catch. My bad. |
| B | That’s an important rhetorical move by those trying to criminalize speech. |
| A | Exactly. |
| B | Which, I got to make a plug for Drilled done by Amy Westervelt. Yes, it’s a podcast. She has a whole season on the real Free Speech Threat and it’s how business, specifically oil, is trying to criminalize free speech largely in the sphere of protest. |
| A | That’s dystopian. |
| B | Yeah, it is. |
| A | That kind of investigative journalism, that is something we can support with our wallet. |
| B | Mm hmm. |
| A | And she has, you know, sort of a checklist of questions you can ask yourself to gauge, like where might you fit in? What risks are you willing to take? Number one, your body, for instance, are you willing to be physically arrested |
| B | Physical confrontation with police or counter protesters. |
| A | Yep. And she says if you have racial or economic privilege, this is a great way to deploy it. At the same time, I don’t think you should force yourself into literal danger. It’s, everyone has to decide for themselves like what’s the limit. |
| B | Here’s where the individualism comes in. You have to decide what your level of involvement in in the cause will be. |
| A | Number two, your time. How many hours can you give to the cause? Your skills, and she lists a number of skills here. Project management, publicity, tech support, social media, accounting, video production, childcare, recruiting. Tech comm professors listening, I hope you see an overlap with several skills that we teach students. So this could be an opportunity for a community engaged assignment or class experience. |
| B | Yeah. |
| A | And I haven’t focused specifically on climate in my courses, but it inevitably comes up and some students choose to do projects on it and they care. And when I see that, I just want to say keep it up, like this is what we need is people who are openly passionate about this issue. You could easily theme a whole course around this. Hm. Partner with a local climate organization or something. And then your wallet, what can you give? And I’ll be honest, that’s my go to, I believe in throwing money at things. And that’s because I’m privileged to be able to do that. Not everyone is. And it’s also conveniently the one that least disrupts me, of everything listed. But it’s a way of supporting others in what they’re already doing. We’re not saying go out and start a nonprofit. There are people out there who know their stuff. They can tell you what to do. There hasn’t been much in the way of super local climate organization? |
| B | Right. |
| A | I know you’ve attended some meetings, but I don’t know that they’ve been, that those groups have been able to sustain themselves. |
| B | As an example, we live in Mankato, Minnesota. So Mankato Zero Waste is one group that’s out there that’s, it has a specific focus for environmentalism. It isn’t exactly focused on climate, but that is one group that’s local and active to some degree, at least |
| A | sort of anti consumerist? |
| B | anti landfill. it’s really just trying to keep things out of the landfill that could be recycled or composted or so on. |
| A | See, I can get behind a like don’t buy a ton of stuff philosophy. But yeah, you on the other hand, you won’t buy stuff, but you will collect anything free that you think you could possibly get a use out of one day. |
| B | That’s generally true. Yeah. So free is hard for but I’m working on it some days more than others. |
| A | I appreciate that. |
| B | In terms of other slightly less local, there is Minnesota350.org which is just the Minnesota State Chapter of 350.org, 350.org being focused on 350 is back in the ’90s. Scientists determined we could probably get away with having a stable climate at 350 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. |
| A | What is our current parts per million? |
| B | Over 420. So we just need to stop and go backwards a few decades, |
| A | Right. |
| B | It’s a big goal, but it’s one that I can get behind. There’s also a Twin Cities chapter of Extinction Rebellion. I would really like to be involved with Extinction Rebellion, because they do the disruptive stuff. |
| A | Hm. And how does the media portray them? |
| B | Oh I think the most devastating way that the media portrays them is not at all. |
| A | Oh, wow. |
| B | And when they do portray them, it’s like look at the, look at these radicals. These, far, you know, it’s marginalizing of the people involved, |
| A | right? They’re extreme and they’re silly. |
| B | They’re extreme and they’re silly and they’re disruptive. By no means we’ll talk about what they’re trying to accomplish. |
| A | Yeah. So that’s another thing we can do as communication specialists and human beings. Is help try to turn the tide against that kind of sentiment when this is going on. Yeah. Like, calling protesters rioters or a mob. |
| B | You know, it’s exactly that sort of a rhetorical move that benefits stability which benefits business which hastens ill effects of climate change. I did want to bring up something that I don’t remember if it was actually covered in the book. This is more from my listening to podcasts. Also notice that this is, this is discussion on, this is not endorsement of anything but in the United States, property rights were something that was essentially fundamental to the founding of our country, the right of our property to be not taken away from us by the king. Because of that, there are more laws about protecting property than there are about protecting life. Non violence sometimes gets wrapped up in that. There was a group called the Earth Liberation Front in the ’80s, I believe there’s only one member that is still at large. The rest of have all been wrapped up by law enforcement. They were identified as eco terrorists, which is a term that I think is probably back in vogue now. They never hurt anyone. They did a lot of property damage, arson, destruction of machinery, to stop pristine forests from being logged, and to stop basically things that would damage environments. |
| A | Ferngully. |
| B | Yeah, Ferngully. They were labeled as terrorists. They were labeled as violent. They never hurt anyone. They were violent against property. That is a concept that should be completely foreign, that you can be violent against property. You’re standing in for an environment that can’t speak for itself and you’re stopping the violence. And so in assessment of how you’re going to join the movement and disrupt normalcy, I mean, I know that the laws are very much aligned with damaging property, being considered violence. It’s a philosophical question to also ask yourself. Is actual sabotage or that sort of thing a way that you’re willing to expose yourself? |
| A | Yeah. |
| B | And on the current events flip side of that, you know, you can be called a terrorist for not hurting anyone, but you can’t be called a war criminal for purposely targeting civilians in the midst of a besieged apartheid state. |
| A | You’re talking about Israel? |
| B | I’m talking about Israel, yes. |
| A | Yeah, man, there are a lot of missions out there that need disruptive action. Where do we start? |
| B | Oh. |
| A | invest in the organizations that have the right priorities and the right focuses. |
| B | Mm hmm. I think that the age in which awareness of climate and environmental issues has risen to prominence coincided with the increased focus on intersectionality. As a result, of all social movements, this most recent has had the most justice focus to it. |
| A | Follow the people of color, the indigenous people, the marginalized people, because making a better world for them makes a better world for everyone. |
| B | Absolutely. You could go as far as getting religious on it, what you did for the least of these you did for me. You don’t need to start something new at this point. You could start a new chapter of something extant. You could start a local thing, of a national organization that’s doing good work that you believe in. Not that that’s easy. But they would be able to help you. |
| A | Yeah. |
| B | Most important, know that you’re not going it alone. Work with others. Know that there are others working with you to the same end. |
| A | Any closing remarks, Benton? You have no fungus updates I’m sure. |
| B | I did see, I did in fact see oyster mushrooms having been recently harvested or eaten by a wild animal when we were at Seven Mile Creek. |
| A | Oh, cute. |
| B | Milder winters means a longer mushroom season. Such fun. |